The Solidsurfer has written an outstanding analysis of the Intelligent Design controversy. MZ is a strong proponent of ID being taught with Evolution in schools because, despite the hysterical left's best efforts to smear it as theology or creationism, ID is in fact based on solid science that deserves to be a core part of classroom study.
Says Solidsurfer in his summary:
Says Solidsurfer in his summary:
Science is all about discovering how the world works. And since intelligent design provides a scientifically plausible and evidence-backed explanation of our planetary and biological origins, it certainly deserves to be taught as such.
MZ recommends reading it all.
-MZ
-MZ
36 comments:
The libs only accept science if it can advance their politics. ID doesn't advocate liberalism so they want it aborted (literally).
you forgot the bone, kev...
even darwin at the end of his days denied his own theory - and it was not his theory, it was his grandfather's. so he was a plagiarist also.
one only need do a study of cause and effect, and a simple study of the laws of thermodynamics to see that you have no effect if first there is no cause. the laws of thermodynamics prove that our situation in the universe is aging, had a start, and is dying. it is not getting better.
we did not evolve from apes, otherwise there would be no apes - and we would certainly have evolved into something better than we are. ain't happening, never happened, and will never happen in the here and now.
if evolution were true, who came first? man or woman? how long was the other around before the other evolved? when did they find out they didn't have to procreate - just wait a couple billion years for a child to come along?
i tell you, it takes a helluva lot more faith to believe in this theory than to believe in a Creator.
MZ, Nanc, Big Right, Kev:
What can I say! It is a great pleasure to read your posts. I have read thoughtful articles about ID in http://fredoneverything.net (he has comments on many current issues you may like to check out) and also Jerry Pournelle's http://www.jerrypournelle.com (he was part of a team which actually built a realy reusable space vehicle which was promptly taken over by NASA and then *accidentally* destroyed for all intents and purposes - in fact, please do check out his comments on NASA, space, energy etc.).
Leftists cannot stand truth or inquiry - imagine how far the USA would go if it was a conservative country as it used to be, auld lang syne - I often wonder, what can really be done with the eternally back-stabbing, moral-equivalencing, lowering-drawbridge-in-the-dead-of-night-so-the-enemies-can-come-in-ing lefties? They really need to have their own "country" where they can live out their utopian fantasies to the final ruinous end, without harming countless good people.
yes another infidel - i have always said they deserve the entire left coast, free of charge to run as they please. i would not even consider bothering them on ounce. i wouldn't even consider pushing them into the ocean as they wish someone would do to israel, no, no, no, not me, uh-uh, not now, not ever.
LOL!! "Leftists cannot stand truth or inquiry?" Now I've heard it all.
So, the idea is to teach our children - in public school, no less - that "God", or some higher power of some kind, made the world and it's supposed to be called real science. This is how today's radical right wants it done.
Oh, yeah, that's why I left the republican party! Reading the way the God squad Right wants me to live always reminds me how the Republican Party has no business running the country and must be stopped.
you lose getsit - we won - we will win again - we are the majority. whine all you want, but TRUTH is you and your party favors are duds. poor loser, poor loser, poor loser. i will rethink evolution theory regarding you and your kind. now, go tell mommy and daddy d.u. all about us beating the living tar out of you. come back when you make it out of third string and want to have a real game. right now, you ain't got game! waaaaaaaahhhhhhhh......
As usual, nanc the low IQ religious fanatic is rambling without making any sense at all. My logic vs. your zealotry...reasoning vs. dogma...Pat Robertson vs. Albert Einstein...
I am shocked that in this day and age people still are divided over this? Religion must indeed be the opiate of the masses.
getsit:
You can always go over to Jerry Pournelle's or Fred's site to debate about ID - be warned though that both of them are very knowledgeable and Jerry in particular is a renowned scientist and is pretty short with people who argue without logic.
Re the Republican Party - it is true we hold our nose and support it given the alternative - but be assured that the conservatives whom you so dislike are quite fed up with the invertebrate behavior of said Party. And of course, the "God squad" aren't the ones who tell - no, dictate - how the rest of the world should live - that post has been grabbed by the Loony (as in Left) Party long since ...
All:
Incidentally, scientists have been struggling really hard to "create life" in the lab for a long time, and if I can say anything by looking at Western civilization's dizzying climb (though of late the lefties are doing their utmost to drag it down), they will succeed eventually. And when that happens, and if the life is sufficiently complex and even sentient, the scientists would be the "Gods" to the new lifeforms. In fact, scientists did create a bacteria that actually "ate" oil long back probably in an effort to solve oil-spill issues - the only problem was that oil wasn't the food-of-choice of the bacteria - the salient point is that someone "intelligently" designed the bacteria. True, they didn't make the bacteria from inanimate materials - they modified existing ones IMHO - but that was ID of a sort all the same. And of course we have GM crops like tomatoes with animal genes - remember the furor? Sounds Id-ish to me!
getsit:
Albert Einstein was a very poor choice to make in defending your thesis - he believed in God very deeply and famously remarked "God doesn't play dice with the Universe". Or maybe Albert was the bad Republican/Conservative guy in your comparison (in which case I humbly apologize)?
reminds me of a joke a.i. - G-d and a scientist were arguing over creating life; G-d gave the scientist the benefit of the doubt and said, "okay, show me how you do it." the scientist leaned over to grab a handful of soil, G-d slapped his hand and said, "no, you must first create your own dirt!"
Right on Nanc!
thanx a.i.
getsit still ain't got game - getsit rhymes with nitswit. he'll be the guy selling peanuts at the game, alongside jimmah cawtuh.
i do not know why i expect one of his ilk to have any intelligent input. refer to joke and benefit of doubt thing as needed.
Getsit, what you fail to do is explain in what way Intelligent Design is NOT science. You accuse without foundation. Please show exactly how Intelligent Design is theology or creationism if that is your allegation.
hey kev and madze - i bet getsit has a plan similar to john kerry - whatever on earth that is!
Ha ha haaaaaa!!! I think Intelligent Design is stupid, but Getsit really blows it,
"...Reading the way the God squad Right wants me to live always reminds me how the Republican Party has no business running the country and must be stopped"
Intelligent Design is a scientific theory that has nothing to do with lifestyle. While I think the science behind it is weak, no one is telling me I have to believe it.
You are telling them that they have to believe in evolution. You are so intolerant of any ideas that are not your own.
You are not open to a civil discussion about your disagreement. Instead you link the issue to the overthrow of the bush administration.
You are sick!!!!!!!
Freedomnow, you are the sick one. If you agree that ID is wrong, but still play the fool for the rightwingers who are trying to make the country into the Christian States of America, than you are just gutless.
At least the religious zombies really believe what they are doing, but you???... you're just their chump.
getsit - i told you in a civil manner why i do not believe in evolution. why is it you cannot do the same regarding why you believe in evolution. why is it that is how you attack people of faith? the subject here is intelligent design, not subintelligent wrecks which you have just proven the theory of. you need to get your ritalin dose friend and take a double dose before coming back here. perhaps then you will try to make sense instead blathering on like the left's chump you are - or was that chimp? what's the difference?
Getsit calls me a chump for allowing the discussion of the ID theory? Is tolerance wrong? This is fantastic! I feel like a school teacher arguing for diversity.
I have troubling believing that Getsit is real. Are you a neo-con trying to make the anti-Bush crowd look stupid? Are the Jews behind this (MZ look me straight in the eye when I ask you)?
Whats next? A Cuban firing squad for Bush? All you Bush supporters better line up for reprogramming at Getsit's concentration camp resort, Club Dead.
The Christian States of America? Ha haaa haaaaaaaa Somebody please tell me, is there Internet access at Bellevue hospital?
Freedomnow, I may not be aware of a Jewish conspiracy to attract Getsit...unless having the audacity to even run this website constitutes incitement...but I bet I could make him go away. The only thing is, everyone seems to find him amusing. Personally, I could care less either way...
-MZ
We need to keep informed about the progress of the coup that will give birth to the Christian States of America.
Only Getsit seems to have that information.
...Whats that?!!! Did you hear something? I know they are watching me, I gotta go now...
Amusing? Only because nobody has refuted me yet which somehow makes you laugh. probably in fear of being wrong. Freedomnow? What a joke that name is. Freedom to be a puppet of the far right maybe.
on which statement would you like refutation getsit? seems to me you have made no statements, only accusations and name calling. for your information freedomnow is an athiest, but defends the rights of others because we defend his right to be an athiest. he is extremely fair and somewhat unbalanced, but we appreciate him that way. he is no puppet. he is open to debate, something you should aspire to. now, shoo before the moderator comes and swats you with his batswatter.
p.s. madze - i say if getsit gets mean or threatening he needs to go, but if he remains inane, inert and comical he should get to stay. not that i pull any weight whatsoever here, but the absolute stoopa-ditty of the left is quite perhaps as entertaining as watching susan estrich and charlie rangel together on the same channel - they're interchangeable you know!
Hey MZ, thanks for the referral; glad you liked my piece!
Your welcome, Surfer...well done.
yes, thank you surfer. excellent piece. i guess i should visit your site and tell you myself.
nevermind.....
Getsit,
Dont be so smug, you could be wrong. Did you forget that you are human?
Your intolerance of anyone else's views is not scientific. First you examine the theory (without bias), then you make a conclusion. You allow politics to interfere with scientific debate. Much more than you accuse them of using theology to interfere with scientific research.
Freedom is earned through tolerance and open debate. Your totalitarian tactics are not democratic...
I believe through unbiased analysis that ID is wrong. However, that doesnt shut the door on debate because I may have overlooked some facts.
Getsit, a word of advice, your arrogance is unbecoming and self defeating.
freedomnow - a great book with great arguments for id is "creation" by grant jeffrey. the simplicity with which he presents his material and his references makes this one of my favorite id books.
what i don't get kuhnkat is how many years was one sex around before the other came along? if that could be explained evolutionally that would be just square one. how did our eyes develop so perfectly? how did jews know to circumcise on the eighth day for the greatest health benefits? why have we not evolved into something far superior to what we are. "a fool in his heart has said there is no G-d."
so evolution is much quicker than once thought? imagine that!
kuhnkat - devolution - i was being multi-faceted. perhaps freedomnow will write a song about this. have you visited his site lately?
I may be coming a little late to the debate, but I just stumbled across your site. The fact of the matter is that ID is not based on "solid science". John Marburg, the President's scientific advisor, said the concept was not scientific. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be taught in schools, but as a theory which is not an accepted theory in the scientific community it should not be taught in a science class.
Evolution is far from dead. In fact there is a large amount of empirical evidence to support it. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_evolution for example.
It doesn't matter that "real scientists" (as opposed to those fake scientists) have proposed ID, the fact remains that it has undergone very little peer review (a basic requirement for scientific theories), and the amount it has been subjected to have shown that it's basic tenets are fundamentally flawed. Examples of "irreducible complexity" have been disproved time and again. Even if some example exists that we can't explain right now doesn't mean that it won't be explainable in the future and certainly doesn't lay waste to the other evidence which supports evolution.
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