I've been having a nice time at the progressive website www.mydd.com putting an anti-Israel leftist in his place. Below is the exchange I had with "Palestinian" apologist, UKLIB. Note my effusive civility out of respect for host of the Leftwing forum I was visiting. MZ always tries to be a gentleman, after all.
UKLIB: Do you think the 25% of Palestinians who are Christian think that Israel is a 'Crusader' state.The majority of Palestinians would happily live in peace with the Israelis even now if they were offered a just settlement. To date that has not happened.
MZ: Unfortunately, the moslems have killed or forced conversion upon the indigenous Christian population in terrible numbers. The latest statistics show the Christian population down to about 3%.
Also, unfortunately, the moslems feel even worse towards Jews and have rejected every concession or gesture that Israel has ever offered. Truly a sad state of affairs that the moslems are still so unwilling to accept peace and abandon jihad.
I also agree that the solution here is not to divide Israel up into two states, as that would be permanently unstable and violent, and that the only solution is to incorporate all of the land west of the Jordan River into Israel, and give the long suffering Palestinians a land of their own west of the Jordan.
UKLIB: Israel has NEVER offered a just solution. How can you be surprised if the Palestinians are radicalized by 50 years of Israeli racism, subjugation and dispossession. Sadly you simply advocate taking yet another peoples' land to solve the problem which Israel has helped to create. This is truly a solution to the problems of the Middle East.
What evidence have you got to support your claims regarding the suppression of Christianity within the Palestinian population to the extent which you claim?
MZ: Actually, my friend, Israel has offered many just concessions (such as the Oslo accords), but you are absolutely correct about one thing: Any effort to squeeze the Palestinians into an unacceptably small, disjointed and insufficient parcel of Israel is an unjust offer. This is why giving them the plentiful and sprawling land east of the Jordan river would truly be the first offer that would at last end their suffering.
Alas, nobody of leadership is working to make this happen at the moment. Perhaps after the new elections that could change.
Regarding the unfortunate decimation of the Christian Palestinian population, please go to the link below for the information you requested:
http://www.theprismgroup.org/TreatmentChristianArabs.htm
So, you think UKLIB is pulling out every hair on his leftist body yet? I expect a full blown tantrum of a response by morning. Sorry, but every once in awhile I just feel compelled to visit libland and set some dhimmi straight!
-MZ
15 comments:
thank the silver stars in the lining of your lucky coat they let you stay that long. any bets there is a possibility your comments will not be there come morning?
you are as brave as you are effusive in your civility madze. i cannot wait to check it all out come a.m. you are a gentleman to the nth degree.
You know what? I don't care if it's gone because I know he's stewing no matter what. Ha! Dhimmi loser.
that's what we're here for - to turn up the heat once things get stewing. he's probably scratched off what's left of the hair on his noggin! the only substance his head has ever known. what a shame.
What's amazing is the fact that there are really so many people like that out there. It's like a script they all read or something. It's incredible to see the stupidity, anti-semitism and overall ignorance of the Left.
Hopefully you'll convince this guy that the leftist position on Israel/Palestinians does not make any sense.
As for why they believe this stuff, I think there really are two types of leftists. First is the hardcore left who are true socialists/communists. These people are tough to convince otherwise since they are typically so committed to socialism as a utopian ideology, that they're willing to excuse virtually anything (sadly, including terrorism) in pursuit of this goal.
On the other hand, though, are leftists who are trying to do good things, but who are misguided due to learning one-sided leftist views of the world from the mainstream media, university professors, etc. These people can definitely change their views, and once they learn the relevant facts and history, they quite often do.
Hopefully this guy you're talking to is in the latter group...good luck with your debate.
Surfer, don't forget category #3:
The Finklestein/Neuman/Chomsky/Churchill Left, which despises Israel, wants it obliterated, and denies the Holocaust to varying degrees.
If he's that kind of leftist, which is entirely possible considering the website, I expect nothing but hostile rantings.
I propose a demonstration.
MZ, you lay out some facts about the history of the Levant, and we can all watch your opponent utterly avoid and defiantly refuse to believe it - regardless of it's source and veracity.
And they say the religious are blind in their faith...
Was everyone at Moonbat Central a former leftist?
Thats so funny, J Bargholz, I would have never known...
i could never quite fit into the leftist regime, so no, i was never a leftist, freedomnow. but if you notice as i have, formers are usually more adamant and pointed than never were's.
for example, you almost never hear people who've never smoked bother those who do. people who used to drink will go on and on about "12 step" programs and those who've never had a sip could care less. people who have children pay more attention to what other's children are up to than their own on a whole.
coming from one side to another must have an excitement to it, probably akin to hitting the "runners" wall. i must say, it excites me more when people come to this side than just having been on this side for so long. something about seeing the "scales" fall from the eyes of anyone is miraculous in itself. i pray to never become complacent though.
I am aghast, and agog over your treatment of UKLIB. Obviously the individual so named is suffering from an advanced case of hemorrhoids. I truly believe that in this case, the cause of the disease is the position of UKLIB's head.
David Horowitz, the founder of Moonbat Central, was a former leftist, so perhaps the site tended to attract fellow ex-leftists for that reason.
I was never a leftist, and was actually pretty apathetic about politics growing up; when I was in college, for example, I probably couldn't have even articulated the difference between Democrats and Republicans. But in general, I'd have to say that I viewed liberal political ideas as "normal" because that's all I learned both at home and at school; I wasn't even aware of most conservative ideas and principles.
But after 9/11, I got much more interested in history and politics, and essentially, it was just learning the facts that prompted me to take on my current political views. I actually consider myself to be a liberal in the classical sense (i.e. I support democracy, tax cuts, limited government, national security, a sensible and moral foreign policy, etc.), although just about everyone today labels such views as being "conservative".
I also know a lot of other people who have had similar viewpoint shifts as me for the same reason, and seeing this happen is why I strongly believe even the most committed leftist can veer more to the right as long as they get to see the whole picture of things and not only the leftwing side of it.
Yep, Democrats were definitely pretty different back in the day!
I think they're still pretty good sometimes - on occasion, I have voted for certain Democratic candidates and positions. But I probably vote and agree with Republicans about 80% of the time.
I was never a leftist, but I was a Democrat from 18-21 yrs of age. It was more about drinking than anything else. See, the GOP forced a change in drinking age from 18 to 19 when I was 17 1/2. To make matters worse, they raised it from 19 to 21 when I was 18 1/2.
Can anyone here blame me for voting Dem under such infuriating circumstances?
Heh..that's exactly why I say the voting age for civilians should be 25.
It is simply crazy to put decisions that can decide the fate of a nation in the hands of kids.
Most are a pliable captive audience to the commies that run the schools and it hands them too much unearned power.
you may be rightwingmac. but then who are more gung-ho than a horde of 18-22 year olds. the military is full of them as you alluded to. perhaps a test of sorts is in order for those in that age group who vote? i say they should not be dhimmiwits!!!
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